Heat Pumps never mind Electric Cars, Should we demand more searching questions about these 2 policy directions ?
This blog is not a statement but it is just asking a serious question on our future and emissions reductions strategy.
Is there something seriously wrong with our (sorry, I mean the government’s approach) to renewable energy, electrification, and current policies? This is not any specific government in the world but actually every government potentially if they are chasing electrification strategies? (and of course, only some of them are).
You may think we are a little hard on heat pumps, for example, or electric cars even, as we frequently compare our HONE technology to that of the heavily government-promoted heat pump & EV industry, and our technology always seems to come out on top.
However, this is just based on the facts so let’s clear that up so we can have a proper discussion of this subject. HONE is a 100% renewable energy technology with the highest panel rating per sqm worldwide, which makes 100% renewable heating & electricity. Heat pumps and EV’s just consume electric energy from the grid, whether black, brown, blue or green electricity and usually a mix of all.
This is all based on taxation being the primary deciding factor of government policy, and a need for people to keep buying all their energy centrally instead of simply making it themselves, so it can be taxed.
The reality is if you use a heat pump and electric car, you will forever have to buy 100% of all your heating, hot water & electricity with your home producing zero personal renewable energy.
You may be happy to. If you are doing any of these things, you need to consider where the energy is coming from. The graph below from today, 2nd July, shows Ireland’s generation at 650 grams CO2/kWh. With primary energy of electricity at 2.08, (these are the losses in the grid between the power station and the socket in your house), so you multiply 650 grams x 2.08, and you get 1.352 KG of CO2 per kWh used to charge your electric car or run your heat pump.
When you look at the numbers: and these are the facts of today’s data:
Heating: Every kWh you use towards electric heating is producing 1.352 KG (1,352 grams) of CO2 per kWh, and when comparing it to Kerosene, which produces 299 grams of CO2 per kWh, you can see the major difference between the two options. We must, however, include the SPF (annual average COP) value for heat pumps which from the UK Government study of 700 heat pumps completed by B.R.E is 1: 2.65.
However, even reducing the 1,352 grams of CO2 in electricity supply by this efficiency factor converts it to 510 grams in equivalence, making heat pumps 70% more polluting than Kerosene when used for heating when compared like for like.
Electric Car: Unlike heating. electric cars do not enjoy any efficiencies with grid electricity. The best EV will require 18 kWh to cover 100 km, which is 0.18 kWh for each km.
This works out at 243.36 grams of CO2 per km travelled.
Given that the new 2021 EU standard for petrol and diesel cars has a mandatory 95 grams of CO2 per km or less, makes electric cars in this circumstance two and a half times more polluting than petrol/diesel cars.
You can check the grid emissions in real-time by clicking this link: https://www.electricitymap.org/zone/IE
Remember to multiply the value shown by 2.08 to find the total emissions at the socket in your house.
If your decision to do any of these things was because you want to save the planet or go green, then clearly, that isn’t what’s happening.
If you make your own green electricity at home, you can make your EV clean and green and feel good about emissions reductions. However, Heat Pumps run heaviest in winter and cold weather, and you cannot make enough energy to run them unless you install a system such as a HONE private grid (which would negate the requirement for a heat pump anyway).
Whilst electric cars are excellent, and we have many of them in daily use, it’s Achilles Heel is the fuel and where it comes from. The story about EV’s being this magical zero-carbon transport solution is somewhat different in reality.
The heating front is even more questionable. Heat Pumps just make no sense whatsoever, capital cost, operational cost, replacement cost, complexity, maintenance cost, noise, cold houses and of course, these are from the many anecdotal stories online from hundreds of “alleged” heat pumps customers/users which many may be true or completely untrue with an axe to grind. But when you read through 717 pages of comments from hundreds of heat pump owners on just one post, you find it hard to believe that there isn’t a significant issue out there.
The industry claims that COP equals performance with efficiency claims as high as 7 bandied about; when it is “only” a real-time measurement in time usually taken on the hottest day of the year.
The EU heat pump labelling scheme claims SCOP as annual performance when it’s only the annual performance of the compressor and ignores the energy the flow pumps consume, the energy the valves consume and more importantly, completely ignores the auxiliary heaters, which are the biggest part of the annual bill of a heat pump; and why it jumps so high in cold weather. (this analysis of SCOP is taken from the B.R.E Heat Pump report)
B.R.E. in the UK Government-funded study of 700 heat pumps which uses SPF (Seasonal Performance Factor) as the only true measurement of a Heat Pumps annual performance measured it at 1:2.65, that’s for every 1 kWh consumed, 2.65 kWh of heat was produced on average.
If a salesperson is feeding you crazy COP numbers, then simply go onto the B.R.E. website, look up your heat pump, and see the actual annual performance. https://www.bregroup.com/heatpumpefficiency/index.jsp
Of course, we are clear on one thing, the movement of people to expensive & polluting electricity is all about saving €25 Billion in hidden taxation on fossil fuel which will be lost to the government by 2050, in only 28 years time.
HERE ARE SOME COMMENTS BEING MADE ABOUT HEAT PUMPS; YOU CAN MAKE YOUR OWN MIND UP ABOUT WHETHER YOU BELIEVE THEM OR NOT.
From the Carbon Commentary blog, by Chris Goodall, author and renewable energy expert;
“When temperatures in the British Isles drop to unexpectedly low levels, the pattern of traffic on this website changes. One set of search terms dominates the inquiries. Readers are looking for information on why their air source heat pump is costing so much money to run. Sold to them as a way of saving cash, readers often seem to find that the price of heating their home has suddenly increased, sometimes quite dramatically. And, moreover, the pumps don’t heat the house properly.”
“ Despite the increasing evidence of systematic problems with air source heat pumps, government bodies such as the Energy Savings Trust continue to say that they will save money for householders living off the gas grid. Heat pumps are also part of DECC’s ‘Renewable Heat Incentive, a scheme that is intended to subsidise the installation of suitable and effective technologies for householders. The continuing official support for heat pumps in the face of repeated failure needs to be challenged.”
A small selection from the hundreds of posts on the Renewable Energy section of Boards, Ireland’s most popular discussion forum, on poster’s problems with heat pumps; (full thread here)
Post #6
This is just a general reply to say that I’m having issues with very large ESB bills (the last 2-month bill was €395!). I’m using an XXXXXXX Heat Pump. My installer tells me that it’s not the heat pump that’s causing the problem but I think overwise.
Post #7
I hate to say it but I think I can beat you on that one…. my last 2 Month bill was €725. I nearly died of a heart attack when I saw it!
Post #17
I have read many threads here on the running costs of heat pumps. A common theme seems to be very high (and unexpected) running costs when people start to use them.
I am just wondering if anyone has managed to bring down the running costs of their heat pump and, if so, how?
(I am having similar problems myself with my own heat pump).
Thanks in advance for any replies.
Post #36
Ok lads,
I know of a person in a ca. 4,000 sq ft house with only GSHP UFH heating and no backup rads or OFCH or anything else.
Elec bills for y/e Feb 2009 – Euro 5,000 – day units 21,000 – night units 19,000.
Elec bills for y/e Feb 2008 – Euro 4,000 – day units 15,000 – night units 19,000.
Clearly, there is something VERY seriously wrong here.
Can anyone say what it is likely to be ? It’s a pretty new build (less than 7 years), so it’s unlikely to be poor insulation. Even setting the room to 20 C all the time would hardly account for such bills. This sounds like a real problem with the system, no ?
Post #51
I am currently going through the courts for what me plumber told me would cost me €850 per year for an XXXXXXX heat pump. This pump has cost me up to €1900 per year approx to run. If I take into account the €10,000 to buy the pump and the the €2000 per year to run-I was stupid to listen to my plumber. A condenser oil boiler bought in the north will cost about €300 cheaper than down here and is more efficient than any heat pump. I have the ESB bill’s to prove what I paided – daylight robbery.
STAY AWAY FROM THE HEAT PUMP- IT IS Crazy
Post #57
We have an XXXXXXXXXX heat pump installed for the last 3 years and every summer since it was installed it gives us trouble, but it has been out of service for almost a month now.
Post #90
I hope someone can help. This is our second winter in our new house and our Air to Water Heat Pump is not working effectively in this cold weather. The average temperature in all the rooms is 14C with the Kitchen and Sitting Room at 10C. Our home is 2200 sq ft with vaulted ceilings in the kitchen and sitting room.
Our sole source of heat is the Heat Pump and we were told that its an economic form of heating. However, last January and February, our ESB costs were €800 per month!
I need to know if there are any experts in this type of heating which can advise us what we need to do to get it working efficiently. Unfortunately the Installer is no longer trading so I can’t go back to him.
Post #120
Update on my heat pump…… It went on fire on Friday, yes flames and smoke. It’s completely destroyed and we are going to have to have a whole new pump fitted, as soon as the insurance has OK’d it. So we have no heat or hot water now.
Post #123
PLEASE HELP
hi all, I got an XXXXXXXXXX heat pump installed in 2007
New build 4000sq ft, radiators upstairs,
my ESB usage in 2008 was 35063 units
my bills in 2008 varied from €370 – €1350(i got two bills for this amount)
my ESB usage in 2009 was 15012 units
my ESB usage in 2009 varied from €250 – €730
my first bill for 2010 was €1306 and 11264 units
this has put me in the poor house, and if I get another bill like this I
will lose my house
Post #242
Hi all, I’m dealing with XXXXXXX in Tullamore. Iv had my XXXXXXX heat pump in for about 4 years now and have had problems from day 1. The ground floor piping was laid very bad to start with (corners were cut, cold spots were left. Forever.) Our first Christmas in the house (the winter before the hard ones), our ESB bill was over €1200 for 2 months. We took a loan out for that one. The pump was running 24/7. There have been 4 soft-start replaced. A thermostat at the fan unit had been placed in the wrong spot so the pump thought it was cold all the time so it pumped heat around my house 24/7 but there was no heat cos the soft-start had blown but it keep pumping and pumping………….
So the soft-start was replaced, and a couple of months later, it blew again. (I don’t notice for about 4-5 days till the heat starts dropping). That was also replaced, and some computer readings were taken, and I was told they were “off the chart”, but the machine was reset, and all should be ok. A while later, that soft start blows “DEJA VU”. That was replaced with a much bigger one, that blew the same week, a wire is now bridging something at the front of it and it has been fine since. The circulating pump seized in the mean time and the most recent is the compressor chugging like a tractor. To make matters worse i cant afford a lawyer, I also pretty sure my warranty is up soon.
Post #251
I know of one heat pump in a 3200 square foot house that in the real cold year, 2010, January to December had total ESB bills of €1200 euro.
Post #252
I worked on an XXXXXXXXX from XXXXXXXXXX last week where their last bill was €1600
Post #320
Hi can anyone recommend any service engineers in the Tullamore area?
I have an XXXXXXXXXX Heat pump that I need to get serviced,
ESB bills are crazy between €5-600 every 2 months!!
House is only 4 yrs old and insulated to a high level, 50mm Warm board on all external walls and pumped beaded insulation in the cavity,
The Installers say there isn’t a problem with the Unit so I want to get a 2nd opinion.
Post #507
| Great info to know. I’m about to finalize on an XXXXXX unit from XXXXXXXXXX… |
I posted the above about a year ago, ended up going with the XXXXXXXX unit. I find it only fair to post to others, the HP was ordered and paid for 6 months ago, installed 4 months ago and still no hot water.
Post #665
I have an XXXXXX air to water split heat pump installed for <5 yrs. I now have a fault with the PC board. With the benefit of hindsight, I would not purchase a heat pump. They are too many parts that can and will fail. These parts are very expensive, repairs are controlled by 1 agent (no competition). Also, we are now without heating for 3 weeks which is ok as it’s Summer but could as easily been winter.
I have raised my concerns directly with XXXXXXX, and they have not bothered responding. Please keep in mind there is multiple potential parts that can/ will go wrong and therefore making the unit very expensive. I hope this helps inform those considering heating options.
Statement from the website of XXXXXXXXX, who describe themselves as “Ireland’s only full service and heat pump repair company”;
The vast majority of air source heat pumps are designed for climates radically different to that of Ireland, Consequently, the equipment inside the machine is less well equipped to deal with the high levels of water in the Irish climate. A practical example of this can be seen in most air source heat pumps in winter. The water in the air gathers around the heat pump’s heat exchanger and freezes. This causes the heat pump to go into a “defrost cycle”, where the machine stops heating the house and has to take some heat from the house in order to defrost the heat exchanger.
List of Heat Pump Disadvantages from Greenmatch UK
- High Upfront Cost
- Difficult to Install
- Questionable Sustainability
- Requires Significant Work
- Issues in Cold Weather
- Not Entirely Carbon Neutral
Extracts from “Best Practices and Policy Solutions for Ireland’s 2030 Heat Pump Target” by the International Energy Research Centre;
Widespread adoption of heat pumps will certainly increase peak electricity demand for certain periods of time, which could lead to overloading the network and thus voltage instability issues will arise.
Buildhub is a UK forum for builders and self-builders. It has hundreds of posts on heat pumps, many of which are not positive. Here is a small selection;
January 30th 2019. User from Derbyshire UK
So we have an ASHP that was chosen and fitted by our main contractor. It heats our DHW and also our UFH. However in this cold spell (and previously when it was nippy) it seemed to really struggle to get the house temperature up to the set thermostat temp (21C). Our builder says as it is our first winter in the house it takes a while for the slab to warm up. So glad we have the WBS, at the moment it is the only room that it is warm. So disappointed as we deliberately moved out of an old cold house and built this one and thought it would be snug whatever the temperature. The upstairs has no heating as we were assured that the heat would rise and with the insulation we wouldn’t need it. But it is absolutely freezing. Is there anything that I can check easily (I have no idea how the controls of the ASHP work)? Is it possible that the pump isn’t the right size for the house?
On another point our electricity bill is massive. Using about 1300 kWh per month is this normal for an ‘energy efficient’ house.
Any advice appreciated
January 30th 2019. User from Co. Cork, Ireland
I have a 12 kW XXXXXXXXXX/carrier unit
walls and roof typically .1-.13 u-value
300m2 floor area
1400m of UFH across 15 zones
1.2 ACH air tightness
I have the NUI controller and I cannot get the water leaving the unit to get anywhere near the 40deg setpoint…..typically with the compressor running @ max frequency (and max pressure) the discharge of the compressor is getting up to 65-82 Degrees but the temperature of the water leaving the heat pump is only getting to max 37 and normally 32-34.
It is also almost full time at the moment. Something doesn’t add up here…..how can the compressor discharge be so high and not raise the heated water temp much?
So, before you buy a heat pump, or buy a house with a heat pump installed, make sure you are armed with accurate, real-world knowledge.